Justin Breen:
You’re welcome. I’m super excited. You have a very big brain and big heart, and our conversation will be very collaborative.

A.J. Lawrence:
I appreciate that. I mean, look, I’ve been kind of going through stuff and what was kind of cool is you caught me on the mistake I did. Met just on Twitter, if it was right, Twitter or LinkedIn, just about Kolbe discussions. And I kind of had misforgotten my thing and you were like, whoa, there’s no way you can have a score like that. I was like, you’re probably right. Before we get into all this, because there was some fun stuff we were just chatting ahead of time, could you just maybe talk about where you are as an entrepreneur these days?

Justin Breen:
Well, it’s a great opening question. And I see the world in numbers and keywords. That’s just how I see the world in numbers, keywords and patterns. And have found that when you’re a visionary, you think on a global, pure connecting, purely collaborative level. I’ve been like this my whole life but didn’t really understand that until just after turning 40 when starting my first company and then really started to understand it during COVID because that fast tracked people with the right mindset. And then certainly in the last year, a second company, the BrEpic Network, has really started to scale quickly with my partner, who does big deals all day. And then my wife, which I never expected, she’s decided to phase out of pediatrics. She’s a pediatrician, and then she’s the COO of the company. I definitely never expected that. So on the journey on the right path, one of my great friends, Alex Wilson, we were just on Necker Island with Sir Richard Branson. I’m very grateful for that. And spent a whole week there. And I was asking him, what do you think about this trip? And he’s like, oh, we’re on the right path. So I think that’s the best answer.

A.J. Lawrence:
You’re on the right path of your journey. I like that. It’s funny because I usually come at it for myself from like the level of complexity I’m dealing with at the point in my journey or what I’m trying. But I like that. Just you’re on the right path.

Justin Breen:
My life is very simple.

A.J. Lawrence:
That’s good. I think for a lot of us, it is this idea of it’s so easy to just put so much more into things than is necessary. Sometimes while it’s great, we have these brains that can do all sorts of things. It’s like, look, you know what? There’s only a few things that really need the full thought process. We can bring the most of it. We can just go, okay, this is good now. I almost wanted to make a joke, so I guess I am making the joke, except it’s not going to be that funny if your wife moved from pediatrician to being your COO. It’s sort of like she’s like stayed-

Justin Breen:
She’s an adult pediatrician. Well, it’s funny.

A.J. Lawrence:
She’s still working with?

Justin Breen:
100%. So the company where she’s the COO, my partner and I were co-founders. I guess technically my role is CEO, but so as of this recording, we just signed our 55th member and there are only three-

A.J. Lawrence:
Congratulations.

Justin Breen:
Thank you. It’s all because of my wife, not me. I mean, she’s the machine, but there are three members. Only three. Again, I see the world in numbers. There are three under a seven quick start in Kolbe. 10 is the highest, 1 is the lowest. We only have three members under a seven. So usually, but not always, visionaries are like you. They’re very high quick start, little to no follow through without humans or COO helping, the total disaster. I am high, quick start and high follow through. And then most integrators, employees, small business owners, they’re lower, quick start, higher follow through.

A.J. Lawrence:
Let’s kind of jump into that because I know this is part of how our conversation is going. Since I’m in the middle of an acquisition, I’ve been talking to different business coaches. And one suggestion I had, because it lines up, it’s that same-same but different type of thing is the six geniuses of work.

Justin Breen:
Yeah, Working Genius. I’m discernment, galvanizing.

A.J. Lawrence:
Working Genius, yeah. I crushed the book in like two days. It was nice. A little over simplistic, but it is very much that like, okay, are you really good at wondering, hey, is there something to do? And then you look at Kolbe, which I think has a little bit more, and they’ve put more structure into their data analysis. But generally the six things and the six things and kind of finding that balance. Because you really do spend so much focus looking at the Kolbe, maybe first tell us where that came from. That interest in it and then how do you kind of use that as your both from your PR, but then for this community you’re developing.

Justin Breen:
Thank you for asking that. I am an 8 fact finder. I will try not to fact find that answer. But you just asked the high fact finder a question about high fact finding this. So okay, again, I’m simplifier. Everything is a simple thing.

A.J. Lawrence:
Good. I can’t.

Justin Breen:
Yes. You’re complex. Probably a multiplier. I’m simplifier. So there are only two things I write down, two things I write down before I meet someone. One is their name, two is their Kolbe score. I don’t care what someone does. I don’t care where they live, don’t care how many employees they have. I don’t care. That’s just business owner stuff that I never cared about. I want to know if they’re going to take action. And for me, the best way that I’ve seen to simplify that as simple as possible, is someone’s Kolbe score. Again, for the most part, most visionaries are like you. They’re very high quick start, little to no follow through. I am high quick start and high follow through, which is very rare. And high fact finder. I’m like three people in one, but that’s just what it is. And then my wife, who is COO, she’s lower quick start, higher follow through, high fact finder. So that’s good for a pediatrician as well or an engineer, someone in finance. Our sons are 11 and 9. They are both 9 quick start to follow throughs. Like you, they are unemployable. They will never, if they ever have a job, I’d be amazed. They’re bigger visionaries than I am. The 9 year old has already talked about taking over both companies, which will be great because he’ll do better than I am. And we talk about bending time and IQ, those kind of discussions. So I use it for everything.

A.J. Lawrence:
You posted your thing with him.

Justin Breen:
Yes, everything. Everything to me.

A.J. Lawrence:
Is that the son who you posted?

Justin Breen:
Yes, that is correct.

A.J. Lawrence:
Okay, sorry. Everything for you. I apologize, I interrupt you.

Justin Breen:
Yeah, Kolbe for me is like the ease, like I don’t know why my brain does that. But someone will say a name and I’ll be like, oh, that person’s an eight quick start. Or like, oh, A.J., he’s a nine quick start. Like that’s just how I identify people. I mean, there are other assessments. I use Gallup Clifton strength finders and then Enneagram which is also called printed, it’s very similar. Or Working Genius is a good one. Most of the people I talk to in Working Genius, they’re like wonder inventor. So they’re ADD all over the place. Oh, shiny object. A squirrel. Look, there’s a squirrel. And I’m like, I hear blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then simplify, connect, blah, blah, blah, blah, simplify, answer. Blah, blah, blah, blah, simplify.

A.J. Lawrence:
Yeah, I’m wondering discernment there. It’s like, oh, okay, this is good. But more like, are there ways to make things better? And then I need inventors. I can play, but I don’t. You know, that’s not good.

Justin Breen:
Correct. And it’s funny because.

A.J. Lawrence:
No, no, no, no. I was wondering where you kind of go, because I think I took it from through a Strategic Coach year during COVID when I was living abroad and they first started doing the online. Is that where you kind of came across Kolbe or.

Justin Breen:
So. Thank you for asking that. So I’ve been an entrepreneur since 2017 with zero business background. Like, I still don’t know what an S Corp is. I don’t care about that stuff. It doesn’t interest me. So the first couple of years I was in, I. If you want to call them networking groups or was like, I don’t know, a couple hundred bucks or a couple thousand dollars a year. And then one of my first mentors is Gary. His name’s Gary Clayburn. I had met him through another group I was in. I was talking like this, and it was an employee, and the employee said, I have no idea what you’re talking about, but the owner of my company does. Would you like to meet him? Like, okay, sure. So that. That’s Gary. Gary’s like Rain Man. He graduated first in his Army Rangers graduating class. He’s like. He’s like Rain man with numbers. Like, he’s. He’s just pure genius. And then. So I was talking to him, he’s like, well, you. You don’t. You need to get out of that room. You need to. He’s a coach and Strategic Coach as well, in addition to being an incredible entrepreneur. He’s like, oh, you need to join coach and then take your Kolbe. So I took the Kolbe, and I’m 8, 6, 7, 1. And he saw it. He goes, I’ve never. He’s like. He was confused because I. I’ve never met another 8, 6, 7, 1. I don’t think I will. So that’s. And that was 2019. I learned about it.

A.J. Lawrence:
Okay, so what was it that. I mean, just because. Just to kind of focus a little more on just the discussion of this versus others and whatever. Because as much as I liked Kobe, I kind of looked at. I’ve been using plugin, subscription, whatever, something called Crystal AI that generates. It uses AI to look at people’s public postings, their LinkedIn, et cetera, and it generates a disc, and then it generates other. And so I’ve become very reliant on it because it really is a good of, like, short quark, you know, detailed, oriented, and, you know, kind of playing around with that. You join Strategic Coach, which I actually. It’s a really great program, especially with, like, creating that cadence as an entrepreneur. How do you live as an entrepreneur? Is really an interesting thing. They do a lot of. Because, you know, you really do use it. What was that moment where you were like, oh, this makes my life so much more straightforward?

Justin Breen:
Thank you for asking that. That’s a great question. So, again, I see world in numbers and keywords. So we’ll turn to keywords now. So Gallup Clifton, strength finders. Gallup Cliftonstrengthfinders. There are 34 of them. 34. Almost everyone I talk to is top five in ideation and or futuristic. I am 32 out of 34 in ideation and also very low in futuristic. However, all weaknesses to me are just opportunities to find collaborative strengths. So I know, because I’m solo in ideation, I know when it’s a truly great idea. That’s the discernment, galvanized part of it. So when I saw that number, I immediately and my top five strength finders are activator, maximizer, achiever, competition, responsibility. So immediately simplify. Oh, that’s a good idea. And then go, go, go, go, go, go, go. Never stop. Ever. Never ever. So that’s but an idea like that or realizing that it maybe happens once or twice a month, but I know it’s a great, I mean, I know it’s a great idea when that happens.

A.J. Lawrence:
No, that it’s like you have the. Just to throw it to one. To this six wonders, six whatever, six geniuses. Yeah, it’s like you have the discernment with. Is it the enablement or the galvanizing?

Justin Breen:
Yeah, so you have warrior discernment and then I have the discernment galvanized. So I take the wonder and then discernment actually do something with it. Because if you don’t do anything with it, what’s the point?

A.J. Lawrence:
I know it’s called squirm.

Justin Breen:
So 90% of the people I talk to are ADD, ADHD. It’s not a disorder. It’s a sign of genius mislabeled by humans who don’t understand people with add, so they label it a disorder. And then I’m just pure hyper focused. Just pure focused.

A.J. Lawrence:
All right, that’s a, that’s an amazing skill. But all right, so you really found that this resonated with you and you started finding that it really helped you define how do you use it? Because I think a lot of us, you know, I’ve seen groups, everything from casual business groups, baby bath water that is just like a bunch of cool all entrepreneurs, but like very little business. But it’s very to other, very like Strategic Coach and other ones where there are different flavors that people pay attention, different flavors of these things because I think it helps us sort of just understand a little more. But how do you use it? Because I think you, you or at least you discuss it on a level that’s much more structured and strategic than I think a lot of other entrepreneurs.

Justin Breen:
That’s because they’re ADD and I’M not well, so. Okay, so thank you for saying that. I appreciate that. So ADD again, not a disorder, but without humans following through, then nothing would ever get done. If it’s a disaster, I’m high. Quickstart and high. Follow through. Say it, do it, say it, do it, say it. Hit the gas, Pump the brakes, hit the gas. But like, just X and then I’m an activator. Talk is meaningless to me without doing something meaningless. And my wife is a hundred percent gray. I’m very grateful for that. Uh, I’m a hundred percent black and white. A hundred percent. And what I’ve learned in, in life is besides having a family, the greatest joy in life is seeing the patterns in life. And then here’s the answer. And then what’s even cooler than that is when you create your own patterns with it. And I have found that understanding these assessments or these numbers or these keywords is the best way to create the best patterns which become the best rituals. So if you want to call that strategy, that’s. That’s fine. I just. That’s how I live my life.

A.J. Lawrence:
It’s just.

Justin Breen:
That’s my life. I mean, that’s literally. And then I talk to one to two people like us every single week that have let entrepreneurial life destroy their family life or prevented them from having family. I’m like, well, that’s a bad idea. So write a book about how I use these frameworks to not do that. Put your family first and build collaborative global company.

A.J. Lawrence:
Well, it’s funny because I definitely realized with the company I sold last that one of the big things was I had gotten lost into the company for trying to chase the fixing and kind of restructuring all that bad idea. But selling was not the most optimistic, optimal outcome, you know, did well, you know, from a little violin. But it wasn’t what I wanted. It did save my ability to be a parent. We can talk about parenting, you know, as, you know, family life, but also just in general. How do you. How do you use it to just create that more balance within it in your life? Imbalance is the wrong term, but, you know, to create.

Justin Breen:
Create the life you want, for whatever it’s worth. Epic life. I’m very grateful Dr. Peter Diamantis wrote the Forward, but the book’s about how to build collaborative global companies while putting your loved ones first. That’s what it. That’s what it’s about. And then it talks about patterns and assessments and stories like what you’re talking about, and then things that I’ve learned And then here’s answer, pattern, answer, pattern, answered, pattern, answer. So like that’s all, that’s all it is. I was a journalist for 20 years or an entrepreneur who happened to be a journalist. I didn’t know that until becoming an entrepreneur, but. So you don’t get into journalism for revenue, employee account, office space? Like, I don’t. That stuff’s confusing to me. The chapter in the book that I think resonates the most with what you’re talking about is winning the wrong game. One, a great friend of mine, Jesse Elder, he’s a nine quick start. He’s a, he’s a genius. Nine quick start. Actually, he’s very. I think he’s a six three, nine, three. So almost your Kolbe. But so I was asking him, I’m like, this was right at the start of COVID I’m like, why do all these entrepreneurs care about revenue, employee account, all these cars, like making these lists, these dumb lists or whatever. And he’s like, oh, they’re just winning the wrong game. I’m like, oh, that’s a, that’s a good idea. I’ll like the same thing with Kolbe. Like, I’ll really look into that. I’ll think about that. So I always know when someone’s winning the wrong game. When they lead with, like if I first meet them, if they lead with three, I guess transactional things in a row without asking how the other person’s doing. So if they lead with, oh, I just exited or had a big sale or, or oh, I got a new house or my company expanded here or whatever that is. So if they do that three or more. Three or more. I’ll ask how their family is. How’s your family? Most of the time it’s, oh, going through a divorce. Don’t see my children never had children because all this other stuff is a shield. It’s a shield. So winning the right game. There are only two questions because I lead a very simple life. Very simple. There are only two questions I ask myself every day that matter. Only two. Less is more. One, did I have a good experience that day with my, my family? Two, did network grow on a global level every day? The answer to those are yes. And then network growing on a global level could be having a one on one conversation, being in a group like Strategic Coach or the one I helped create, being on a show like this, I mean, posting something on LinkedIn or wherever, somewhere else on social media. So I found all this business owner stuff takes care of itself with that ultra focus from A visionary perspective, family network.

A.J. Lawrence:
I’ve been re looking at a lot of business stuff, interviews I’ve had with different entrepreneurs, reviewing my past instrument, because I’m looking at. I’m in the middle of this acquisition gazillion years ago. Read Built to Last and Good to Great. And it’s funny, since I was just this morning re listening to the beginning of Good to Great, and it talks about the Level 5 leadership and sort of looking at that and how that was such a thing. Those two pieces. You’re consistently working on yourself to be a better person. That’s that family. And you’re putting the company ahead of your ego. It is that kind of doing these interviews, I get a lot. You know, it’s like, okay, so how are things going? Is it we or I that you hear back from people in the broader sense? Yeah, obviously, personal stuff should be I. But, you know, it is seeing that sort of effort. It’s like, wow, I like that. Okay, so I think in relooking at this, you start seeing, like, oh, okay, so, all right. These Kolbe’s and the way people approach things. This and that. Yeah. And it’s like, okay, this is how it can match into something like good to great, which at times feels over. Yeah. It’s like, okay, yeah, I want to do that, but how to bring that into a more realistic part of your own entrepreneurial journey? So that’s really cool that you f. You have that focus. Those two questions are good.

Justin Breen:
All this other stuff is just business. So I’ve started to draw, like, frameworks or whatever. But a great friend of mine. We were on Necker Island together. It was a really great time. His name’s Jason Lowe. He has four children. We have a book coming out about this pretty soon. We both wrote it in like, five days, which I think is really fascinating. But anyway, so he was on Necker Island, and before he had his four kids, he and his wife, they boiled down parenting life, whatever that is, to three fundamental things. And it was be kind, be responsible, and be respectful. And so I heard that, I’m like, oh, God. I’m like, oh, maybe that’ll be a chapter in my next book. I’m like, oh, no, no, no, no. That’s Jason. You got to write a book on that. So then we’re writing a book on it. But I was just thinking about it and turned it into another framework with like a triangle with those three things. The kind, respectful and responsible as a triangle. And then in the middle was a circle with the word you, Y, O, U. And then in the middle of the O in you was a dot. And then that dot reflected a higher power or a north star or whatever that is. And then on the outside of you was family. And then on the outside of family was leader. So it was like a triangle inside a triangle inside a triangle. And I have found the, I guess the business owner mindset is they focus on themselves many times without thinking about higher power. And then they bypass family to focus on leader after themselves. So it’s like almost narcissistic. And where I see the true great visionaries is they know that there’s something, for the most part, they know there’s something bigger than them out there guiding them. So they don’t have the ego. And then more important is as if more important or as important, they don’t bypass their family to be a leader. Because if you’re not a leader for yourself or to higher power or to your family, how are you supposed to be a great leader with your company? I just don’t. That’s illogical to me because you’re not being a great litmus test for the people you serve. Like, how are you expecting to ask your employees or whoever to be good parents or family members if you’re not being a good parent or family? It’s illogical. But I see that over and over and over. Like, I talk to people like us one to two times a week that have let entrepreneur life destroy their family life or prevent them from having a family. I’m like, well, that’s a bad idea.

A.J. Lawrence:
Been having discussions with different people. But you said something that was really interesting around because there has been a rise by, I mean, there’s always been entrepreneurs with religiously, I mean, but I think recently there has been more of this. And I was talking to someone who was saying, well, you know, I’m not even sure I believe, but I’m joining this very religious business group because of the structure and sort of the mindset. And it’s just like, I was like, wait, you’re using religion as a hack?

Justin Breen:
Absolutely. Religion is an entrepreneur. So EOS. Religion is an EOS. So the way I look at it is again, black and white. Faith is for visionaries. Religion is for business owners and the collective. But true faith, the higher power, regardless of the religion, that means that’s just the system. But it’s like understanding that. That’s the way I look at it.

A.J. Lawrence:
No, that’s fascinating because it really does break. I’d never even kind of put there because as an ex-Catholic schoolboy, I used to drive the nuns crazy because I would. Because you have add point out all the little loopholes and everything. Like this Bible says this, but the same section, the Bible at church. And this way of looking at it is faith is just faith. You believe or, you know, it’s a struggle towards faith, but they’re very loose. They’re kind of, you know, at least in the Catholic. And I won’t get into other religions because I only really know. But then the Dominicans, who run pretty much every Catholic school, we will do this. It is by this way, you know, so that’s the religion. And then bringing it into the concept, I think is great because you. And what got me thinking as you were talking about this was I love the thing of the higher power because of the ego. Not the question of if what or what and et cetera. It is, but just if you do believe in something bigger than yourselves, you cannot be that center. Universe, Very simple. Always something.

Justin Breen:
So you see the narcissist or, you know, you use the term ego, the egomaniacs, that’s because they’re in the center. There’s nothing above them or beyond them. Very simple.

A.J. Lawrence:
All right. I like that. It is a good thing. Yeah. Because belief is always this wonderful thing to kind of wrestle with. But I think so much of life, it’s more interesting and more valuable if you do wrestle with the concepts that are out there of how you decide of what you’re dealing with. I talk a lot like vision, mission, understanding, your goal, you’re wise. It’s great. There’s a book out there and a gazillion dollars and all this. But the reality is most people feel inundated with what they should be doing instead of finding their own path of incremental directional progress and struggling consistently with. With the concept of what? This is not as easy.

Justin Breen:
No, no, no.

A.J. Lawrence:
Okay.

Justin Breen:
Okay. Thank you for. Thank you for that. There are four. All I do is talk to visionaries. Not humans, not business owners, not consultants. That stuff is not.

A.J. Lawrence:
Okay.

Justin Breen:
So there are only four things. Four things. And this is not silver spoon. That’s a different discussion. There are four things that separate a visionary from everyone else. And I would say our firms may be partnered with 0.1% of the world. So that’s 8 million out of 8 million. Okay, so there are four things. One, bankruptcy or potential bankruptcy. Two, depression. Three, highest level of anxiety you can imagine. Four, trauma as a child or young adult. Humans, business owners, consultants. Those are excuses. Visionaries figure it out. That’s it. Most people can’t do that. That’s why they’re not visionaries. They make excuses. Since COVID started, I’ve talked to five people, less than three of those four things. Pre Covid, I was still talking to small business owners or even some employees there. One and two, sometimes zero of those four. Now it’s basically all threes and fours. I was talking to Dr. Akindele Akintoye. He’s in Africa. Genius entrepreneur, has lost millions, if not billions. Made millions, if not billions. And I was telling him about those four things. He’s like, oh, you have to go through all four, by the way. I have three of the four. Fake bankruptcy, potential bankruptcy. I haven’t had that yet, I guess, but hopefully not. But if it happens, it’s fine. So he’s like. He. He even challenged it and took it a step further, which I thought was really interesting. He said, you have to go through all four. You must. You must go through all four, because that’s the only way that pride transforms to purpose. I don’t necessarily agree with him, but that’s the only way for all the pride to go is if you go through all four. And I was. And then I was talking to Gino Wickman. He’s become a good friend. He’s like, oh, those four things are great. And then he’s. He’s putting this in his next book. I haven’t seen it yet. I think it just came out. But he added a fifth. He added a fifth. He’s like, oh, addiction. He’s like, addiction. Like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. So visionaries, they can be addicted to work, alcohol, cheating on their spouse, drugs, I don’t know what. And then I’m addicted to my family and growing network. So that’s. Those are my addictions.

A.J. Lawrence:
No. That is funny because, yeah, those are good. An addiction is, you know, it’s an ability to just sort of like, all right, I know I will get my dopamine X. And having that is efficient. You know, it’s an efficient way. As an entrepreneur, sometimes when you’re trying to focus on the bigger, you know, the bigger picture, how to kind of look at that. Yeah, really interested.

Justin Breen:
Yeah.

A.J. Lawrence:
All right, I’m gonna have, if Gino writes that, I’ll definitely have to get into that and see. But no, definitely the trauma. You know, it’s like, we’re all trying to show, I had, I’ve been interviewing, you know, besides this show, but also just like what does it mean to be successful as an entrepreneur? Besides asking entrepreneurs. And I will ask you shortly about family and network. That’s it.

Justin Breen:
That’s it. That’s all I care about.

A.J. Lawrence:
Family, network.

Justin Breen:
It’s the same answer every time.

A.J. Lawrence:
But it’s interesting. Good. But I’m going to push you a little bit, but let’s get to that. But I also love the self actualization that so many entrepreneurs find in doing this path because we kind of lean towards the money or that sort of thing. But then all of a sudden if you just by being an entrepreneur, basically, you know, the only way you continue being an entrepreneur is if you get some success of some form. Yeah. Because otherwise you’re, you’re not making it and you got to go work. Yes. So there is a bit of a selection bias there.

Justin Breen:
Yes.

A.J. Lawrence:
But you know, once we hit some form and I think for a lot of us we’re finding it, it’s not that high of a number.

Justin Breen:
Correct.

A.J. Lawrence:
I mean the concept of personal jets sounds cool, but I have no real inherent interest to be ever getting to. Yeah. It’s like, yay. But that’s not my goal. That’s not why I do this. Yeah. So I like in looking at, you know, your family, like, where does this, where is the self actualization of you like that, dealing with your trauma, dealing with all that? Yeah. I’m going to kind of bring in, since you brought that up, you know, how does, can you see this effort really?

Justin Breen:
Can you see this?

A.J. Lawrence:
It’s a little blurry. Is this what you posted on Instagram?

Justin Breen:
Yeah, the thing I drew the other day with you and your son, I don’t have.

A.J. Lawrence:
I’ll link to it.

Justin Breen:
You’ll link to it. Okay, well, okay, so thank you. I’ll try to show it. But like basically what you’re talking about, and I’m sorry, like for me visuals and hand structures is really hard for me. But so like what you’re talking about is this level here where you get to the decision fact and you have to have a certain IQ and eq, this is a very rudimentary drawing by the way. But I, I, all I do is talk to top visionaries on planet. So like I see the same thing. So you have to have a certain IQ and EQ to get to the decision level whether you want to go back to business owner consulting, funnel world, or if you want to take that next step and become a true visionary. That. That’s where I see it. That’s where I see it. But like in the. And there’s. There’s no right or wrong answer here, but this is just where I see it. And then with like the lower eq, but the higher iq, you see like the funnels or the business owner, or like the lawyer, the engineer, a financial person. Then the higher EQ with the lower iq, you see like the healer or the small nonprofit or the caretaker. The true visionary has. Is high in both. They have a genius heart and a genius brain. Genius heart and a genius brain. Because if you have a genius brain without the genius heart, it’s like a cyborg or a narcissist or not understanding a higher power, or you’re the center of the world. Like so super high iq, and then if you have high eq but not the iq, like you know, hippie on the street, kumbaya, but you can’t mechanize it, you can’t do anything with it. So it’s, it’s combining both and it’s really hard to find people with both at first. It’s really hard. Like it takes 40 plus years sometimes. So it just does. And, and then. But you just keep, you just keep talking like this. You keep talking like this. You keep, you keep going on that path because this is just what it is. And then eventually you find the people who understand it. And then those are in my case, in my world, which I’m very grateful for. It’s visionaries. Top visionaries on the planet, or those who won’t make excuses, they’ll just do. Just takes a lifetime, many times of figuring that out.

A.J. Lawrence:
Yeah, you talk about keywords. So I’m an old SEO. You know, my first company was SEO and I kind of came out of that and I, I, way back when the tools were a lot better, really went down hardcore into a lot of the SEO research.

Justin Breen:
Have you done your IQ before?

A.J. Lawrence:
I’ve done it.

Justin Breen:
Remember the number? Don’t tell me if you remember it, but do you, do you remember it? Were you over 150? Over 140. You were close to 150. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. When you get over 150, it’s really hard to have human relationships.

A.J. Lawrence:
One of my favorite people who I hired years ago, she graduated college at 14.

Justin Breen:
Yeah. Does she have a family? Yes or no?

A.J. Lawrence:
She is beginning now that she’s in her late 30s. The first 10 years afterwards, she was like, I went and became a kindergarten teacher because those were the only people I could really deal with.

Justin Breen:
Yes. Makes sense.

A.J. Lawrence:
And now she’s a senior executive. She was at Twitter with the great big cutting. She was a senior executive on the executive team.

Justin Breen:
I’m sending this to you on a Facebook message. I simplified IQ and there’s no data, but, like, I just. Like, I see the pattern, so I just did it. But the high 140s are.140s. Okay. So the 140s are good at funnels and systems and SEO and stuff. They’re good at that.

A.J. Lawrence:
No, I wanted to talk about the story. Sorry, this is where I was going with this because you’ve been talking about these frameworks and how to do this. One of the things that I was interested, and this is very cursory, obvious from looking at it because of my background in search and just intention and keyword and all that, is the idea that so often there’s so much more benefit to create your communication in the type of language that you want, though, of the type of people you’re trying. Yeah, yeah, you. Yeah. And there’s all different ways of saying it and all this. But I. It sounds like, you know, now that we’re going into the different types of Kolbe indexes, the different frameworks, the different ways and the intentions that you bring into it, I would love to kind of go, what are the stories that you are finding really interesting to create with people to generate the results they’re looking for? Because that’s something I think a lot of my audience is like, okay, pr, we got a mention. Does that do anything? But you talk about creating a story, and I know when it’s done well, it really does help you, as you said, find the right people to talk to, find other people like yourself, other visionaries. So, you know, that’s where I picked it off of to get back to your pr, because it’s like creating those stories that really are resonating from yourself, but to your intended avatar, audience, etc, however you want to define it. That is so important. So how did that happen? And then what are those stories that you’re finding really interesting to help facilitate?

Justin Breen:
Wow, Tremendous. Glad you found that way back there. That was good. Good job.

A.J. Lawrence:
Yeah, no, it was there. It was there.

Justin Breen:
I know it was there. So. So most of my day’s talking to add people, and then they just kind of. And, oh, yeah, here’s the question, but. And then I just wait for them to answer. Basket. But the.

A.J. Lawrence:
It’s.

Justin Breen:
But that’s why it works. But okay, so even though I don’t like context, I will provide some context because for audience, hopefully it’s helpful and for YouTube, but for your audience. So first company, I was a journalist for 20 years. 20 years, created entire first company based on how PR firms annoyed me for 20 years. I have no idea what PR firms do other than bothered me. They just bothered me. So I created a solution. I don’t know what PR firms do. They just, they don’t know. They’re not for visionaries, they’re for human media, which is fine. So again, journalist for 20 years. I never watched the news. I had no idea that Kamala Harris was the vice president until my nine year old son said, what do you think about Kamala Harris? I got. I don’t know who that is. So I ignore, like I just ignore stuff like that. And then purpose of life is connecting visionaries to serve humanity. So not business owners, not humans, not visionaries, just vision. I have found through learning and then conversations like these that shows like these are actually transformational platforms for visionaries, not for business owners. Visionaries. Visionaries. And then there are two fundamentals that will never change, ever. They will never change, ever. One, power of real human relationships. So we met on, I don’t know, some platform. We’re talking on Streamyard, whatever. It’s a. Still a real human relationship, regardless of where it’s been. It’s a real human relationship. So that’s 1, 2, the power of storytelling, Bible, smoke signals, hieroglyphics, constitution, I don’t know, Magna Carta, whatever that is. So all this tech stuff, all this tech stuff, it’s fine. All this AI stuff is fine. All that stuff will do for people with the right mindset for a visionary is do two things. One, create better real human relationships, probably with yourself. First, because AI is a collaborator. It’s collaborative empath, collaborative harmony. And then two, it will create better storytelling because we’re a globe of storyteller. And for me, purpose and storytelling allows me to spend time with my family and then grow network. So it’s, it’s all connected. It’s all connected. Okay, so one of our PR partners, again, I don’t even know what PR firms do, but his name’s Andrew Sassen. He’s a 10 quick start. He and his team have created a company that help with addiction, mental health, and then he partners with bands like Aerosmith and does it through music. So his company is scaling across the United States, we have numerous partners in Longevity. A lot of folks in the financial world, but their visionary path, they happen to be in financial. They’re not financial advisors. They’re visionaries who happen to do that. Schuler Scholarship Fund. Jack Schuler, Forbes billionaire. He’s giving away all of his money to help underserved kids in Chicago, Milwaukee go to schools like Harvard and Yale for free. So he’s done that for 20 years. And he’s. He has a sunshine clause after he dies. 30 years to keep doing that. So those are the visionaries that are changing the world. They are the world thinkers, not their world thinkers. They are not linear thinkers. They are exponential thinkers. So I just like to connect people like that to people like that. People like you, and then people like you interview them and then they create whatever they create out of it. But I don’t care about ROI or what will this sell to. I don’t even think about that stuff. That’s business owner stuff. Do you want to meet visionaries or not? That is what I hear. We want to meet more people who understand us and we can collaborate on things with.

A.J. Lawrence:
It’s funny, one of my old employees, I was talking about things she said, yeah, you’ve been. One of the things I used to always communicate was like, look, if we create value, create value. If we create value for our clients and blah, blah, blah is the way we do it. But you know, the blah, blah, blah changes all the time. But if you do it, you’ll have the ability to then to extract some of that value. And to me it’s always like, create value. We’ll do. Let’s focus on the creating value and I’ll find someone, someone else on the team who will figure out that extraction, right?

Justin Breen:
Have a human do that. But create value, that’s it. So you’re a pure simplifier. I love it. That’s what it. So like, that’s like. So like, when people talk about ROI or linear things like that, I get confused because I, I don’t measure value. Like, do you want to meet the right people or not? I guess that’s the most valuable thing you can like, because if what I’ve learned, my favorite pattern by far is if you have the right mindset, it attracts the right network, and then that network creates the right opportunities for you. So right mindset, right network creates right opportunities. Wrong mindset attracts wrong network. No network, no opportunities. Wrong opportunities. So mindset, that’s what it’s about.

A.J. Lawrence:
I like that. And all right, so because we’ve gone so far all over the place, let me push this one more area out and then let’s come back to that success question. I, you know that I didn’t ask you earlier. How are you defining mindset and how are you measuring?

Justin Breen:
Wow, great. Okay, so there are only three attributes. A true visionary only has three attributes in their mindset that I see. Only three simplifier. So one is they’re a visionary. They’re not a business owner, they’re not a human, they’re not a consultant. And by the way, that has nothing to do with how many employees you have. That’s meaningless.

Two, they live in full abundance. No scarcity, no excuses, ever. A visionary would never, will never make an excuse, ever, ever. They will never make an excuse. Three, this is where I see, I guess, quote unquote, the fake visionaries get trapped. A true visionary, a true visionary will always look at things as investments, not cost. So if someone asks, what do you cost or charge? They are not a visionary because they’re, they’re their own limiters. They’re their own limiters with their own cost, charge, scarcity mindset. So you can’t be a visionary if you are your own limiter. It’s like bypassing family or bypassing higher power. It’s like not a visionary and then measuring. Well, that’s an interesting question. I do think the best way that I measure it is with someone’s Kolbe. There certainly are exceptions. There can be lower quick starts that are visionaries, but for the most part they’re high. I will say from a financial aspect, most of the folks, certainly not all, but most of the folks we partner with are seven to ten figure visionaries who happen to have businesses that serve their purpose. My partner for the second company who’s a nine quick start like you, he does eight and nine figure deals all day. I don’t even think about it. That’s not my world. But he’s, you know, he helps people build family offices, multifamily offices, that kind of thing. So, okay, yeah, so I guess that’s the way to measure it from a financial perspective. But I really look at it as, are you a world global, even beyond global thinker and doer, or are you a linear their world thinker? And most of the world is linear their world.

A.J. Lawrence:
One of the reasons I sort of asked it that way, how do you measure, it wasn’t really for how you measure other people, but for yourself. Because one of the things as I’m looking at this acquisition I’m really fascinated by and rereading a lot of stuff I kind of didn’t really pay attention to 15, 10 years ago is this kind of movement towards all right, I’m just going to. Because I’m in the middle of it right now. Is this good to great and looking at a good company and like what are those things to really bring out its higher value?

Justin Breen:
That is your genius right there. Your brain can do that very quickly, I’m guessing.

A.J. Lawrence:
Yeah, I’m that with discernment. It’s sort of like, okay, but then I’m pretty good at the galvanizing, but it’s not the 100% sweet spot. But it’s the rest of it that then it falls off.

Justin Breen:
Makes sense.

A.J. Lawrence:
But looking at it is like in your own. One of the things is that movement toward and I’m just going to call it, you know, use the level five leadership they talk about. There’s a gazillion others, but that level five is that commitment and consistent self improvement and sort of the belief of the organization ahead of the self interest.

Justin Breen:
Of course.

A.J. Lawrence:
So when you talked about mindset, one of the things you know is sort of looking at working on my own. I’ll use it this. But I know in talking with people who listen to the show is like how can they create ways to help them? You know, I always talk about improve their entrepreneurial journey, but let’s just talk about mindset as part of this improvement.

Justin Breen:
It’s not part of it.

A.J. Lawrence:
No, no, no, it’s not.

Justin Breen:
Part of it is it’s everything. 100%. It’s a hundred percent.

A.J. Lawrence:
How do you measure if you’re improving or not?

Justin Breen:
There’s your you know, so that’s your SEO engineering brain. I don’t think like that.

A.J. Lawrence:
So…

Justin Breen:
Okay. So thank you for asking. My favorite quote is from Earl Nightingale. Success is the progressive realization of a worthy ideal. Success is that he died a long time ago. Success is the progress.

A.J. Lawrence:
The ideal is the ideal.

Justin Breen:
Success is the progressive realization of a worthy ideal. The second favorite quote of his is you become what you think about. All I think about is spending time with my family and connecting visionaries to surgery man.

A.J. Lawrence:
So you don’t improve your vision.

Justin Breen:
It’s progressive realization of a worthy ideal. You just progressively get better at it.

A.J. Lawrence:
Yep. The vision is the vision. Maybe you. Yeah, all right, I’m going to play. Maybe it is just that chipping away of the marble.

Justin Breen:
Oh, your engineer brain gets confused with that. Now your SEO brain’s getting confused with that. But that’s your brain. Yeah, I don’t have an SEO brain. I have an activator I’m doing.

A.J. Lawrence:
Hey, you think about this all the time. I’m just trying to catch up here. No. All right, thank you. I mean, look, this is always something because I think it’s hard to understand where as entrepreneurs, we can bring, improve ourselves and kind of do this. So. All right, I did go down that on, you know, vision. Let’s, let’s bring it down to what you really have put. You know, you’ve mentioned the importance of family. You know, talk about how you’re defining your success here and how you either see it evolving or how you see it growing as you continue on.

Justin Breen:
That’s a great one. It’s an easy answer, but talk is meaningless without an answer. So this, to me, this is the best answer I’ve seen. So my youngest son is 9. Our youngest son’s 9. When he was 8, we were talking about bending time and IQ. Chase is a little version of Earl Nightingale. I don’t say that lightly, but he just is. And so we were talking about bending time and then I’m paraphrasing Chase, but he said, he said he considers life one long, great day. One long, great day. So yesterday’s before you’re born, tomorrow’s after you die. And then he said there are two ways to have a great day. One, create living things. Fundamental purpose of any living thing is to create more living things. So that could be a human, a company planting trees, whatever, whatever that is. Foundation. And then two, do what you like to do and what you’re good at. Keep getting better at it. So that’s. And then he already wants to take over both companies. Our 11 year old is completely unemployable. He’s just an incredible, really great kid, super smart, has a lot of friends. And without that and my wife being happy, all this other stuff is meaningless to me. Me, it doesn’t matter. So that’s what true success is. True success.

A.J. Lawrence:
Okay, so that, do you see evolve? I mean, not obviously not their success and their happiness and their growth, but as you move forward, is it more creating the environment for your son to take over the.

Justin Breen:
Oh, no, no. Great, great question. But no, Incorrect, incorrect. But a great question. Like, I never would have asked my wife to phase out of Pediatrics and join the company as a coo. I never would. I didn’t even think she would do that. I never would have asked either child to take over companies ever. It’s their. What I will say is asking really great questions leads to better answers which leads to better people. So better questions leads to like you’ve asked a lot of great questions during this discussion which I’m really grateful for. But that leads to what I’ve seen better answers and that creates better people. But the key is the better questions. So that’s what I. I mean I guess that’s my role within the families to ask questions that most parents wouldn’t ask or even think about asking. Great question by you. Excellent.

A.J. Lawrence:
That. Well, no, I mean even a better answer because yeah, I hear a lot, you know from very self serving question, you know, things of success to sort of the pat answers. But asking better questions about how to achieve that of your important. You know because the importance is the importance. It doesn’t change. Like I was somewhat jealous. Somewhat laughing. I have older teenagers and you’re in the point of your boys lives where you’re still a superhero.

Justin Breen:
No, no, my. My wife is a superhero. I’m someone who gets punched between the legs or kicked.

A.J. Lawrence:
Yeah, well that’s because you’re. You’re the playmate. Okay.

Justin Breen:
Older brother.

A.J. Lawrence:
But like okay. I remember that. Yes. But my son’s in university and I am getting you know like awesome. But it is like that moment where you are such the cool person to being to someone like you know, it deepens and it changes. But I like that and you know thinking about your way of defi. Of like just continuing to work on the questions that can bring you know, the value of my. The importance of my children, their value to me and their success, their happiness and their becoming good people is always going to be. But asking better questions.

Justin Breen:
Yes.

A.J. Lawrence:
To help facilitate that I think is such a great way of framing it because you can. The better you progress towards financial. Yes. But other forms of success. It allowed you to ask better questions. I think you just gave me a whole new area to kind of explore and play with because of your question.

Justin Breen:
So you answer your own question with a question. Good job.

A.J. Lawrence:
No, I asked, I asked new questions.

Justin Breen:
High level iq. Joking. Yay.

A.J. Lawrence:
It’s like anyone who’s ever read Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy is just meant for geeks who can’t have real conversations with other people.

Justin Breen:
Oh yeah. It goes horribly wrong.

A.J. Lawrence:
Badly on.

Justin Breen:
Yeah. So if you. So you described yourself as an introvert before the record button was hit. I think you’re just listening to you. I think you’re more of an ambivert like me. Where if you get me around people like us, I’m biggest extrovert on planet. If you get me around water cooler conversation. If you’ve seen Blair Witch Project at the end where the people are facing the wall, it wouldn’t be facing the wall. It’d be turned around. That’d be weird if I just stood in the corner. But yeah, there’s.

A.J. Lawrence:
Oh, my God.

Justin Breen:
I just.

A.J. Lawrence:
I remember that scene.

Justin Breen:
Yeah, I could see you doing that with the watercolor conversation. Hey, I’m just gonna turn around and stare at the wa. My. Oh, man, that was fun. Oh, man. My wife. My wife, kindest person on the planet. Literally, like, nice. And she’s like, you have to say thank you to people. I’m like, oh. And then I real. We had one of our Brevic network meetings and we were. There was a. There’s a visionary in there who’s like. He’s even like, less empathetic overall for, like, for water cooler conversations than me. And then. And he’s older too, and he’s like, oh, thank you means he was instructing people. What thank you actually meant. He’s like, thank you means you’re acknowledging someone else’s humanity. I’m like, oh, wow. Thank you for saying that. Now I see why it’s so important to do that. Because I’m just like, why are you even saying this? But now it makes sense. So I learned that. Learned what? Actual what that actually meant. I’m not kidding either. That’s like. That’s what it. I’m like, oh, you’re just acknowledging someone’s humanity.

A.J. Lawrence:
It’s so funny. I had a coach when I was. Because I grew, you know, I. I was this. I was 64 when I was 12.

Justin Breen:
Oh, you really stood out. Literally. Oh, my God. I was gonna say, do you have any athletic ability at all?

A.J. Lawrence:
Oh, yeah. I mean, I did, you know, I was. I ended up being really good at running, but not basketball or football, where they always expected distance or sprinting. But I had a coach, quarter mile hurdles.

Justin Breen:
Oh, that would make sense.

A.J. Lawrence:
400 meter hurdles. I was there when they transitioned. I was running when they transitioned from 440 to 400 meters. Yeah, I like, that was fun because it was. It was physical but mental. Yeah, you had to push, but it was also still enough of a race mentally of how you pushed and where you pushed.

Justin Breen:
That’s perfect for Your brain perfect.

A.J. Lawrence:
I had a basketball coach who used to yell at me all the time because I. I was forced to go to every basketball sports camp ever, right when I was little. And I just had. I was just like, okay. And coaches would always want to work with me because I was so big, but I didn’t recognize that. And I had one coach who was the hardest coach I’ve ever had, and, like, ended up having him at different summer camps. I had him. He became an assistant on the varsity coach when I was a senior, and he just rode me. He’s like, you need to say thank you. You don’t. And in hindsight, it was probably the best thing anyone has ever taught me. Forget the layup, forget the boxing out. Forget the hooks. It was him just yelling about how.

Justin Breen:
Ridiculous that is, but also how profound that is.

A.J. Lawrence:
He was like, everyone’s working on you, and you don’t even.

Justin Breen:
I’m like, oh, he’s. It makes sense.

A.J. Lawrence:
I just want to hide you. I don’t want people helping me.

Justin Breen:
Get away from me.

A.J. Lawrence:
I just want to jump over. So cool. Hey. Well, I didn’t. I hadn’t found out hurdles. Then it was later. And then I was like, oh, these are fun.

Justin Breen:
Trying to hurdle the hell out of the basketball gym. That’s what you’re trying to hop, skip, and a jump out of there.

A.J. Lawrence:
Well, hop, skip, and jump. The triple jump was another one I like, too, but. All right, back to the coin. This was. This was great. I really.

Justin Breen:
It was.

A.J. Lawrence:
Thank you. We’re gonna have to find.

Justin Breen:
Well, I’m gonna.

A.J. Lawrence:
We’ll. I want to talk with you more. We’ll find ways here somewhere. Thank you. I.

Justin Breen:
You’re welcome.

A.J. Lawrence:
Thank you very much.

Justin Breen:
Thank you. See, look at that. We learned.

A.J. Lawrence:
Yeah. We went.

Justin Breen:
Thank you.

A.J. Lawrence:
And I said it was going to be a bit all over, but we got into story, and we got into sort of that, but I think we went deeper. So cool. All right, everyone, thank you so much for listening to this. This was. This was a lot of fun, and I hope, you know, you were able to really pull out. There were some really cool, actionable pieces around. Looking at how you define the different types of work where they’re pulling. And I’m just going to. You know, what is this that you’re trying to achieve as entrepreneurs? Because, look, we’re different. You know, we have to interact with everyone else. But at the end of the day, as an entrepreneurs, we’re choosing to do things differently. So.

Justin Breen:
Yes, that’s great.

A.J. Lawrence:
Looking at how custom brings the stories together and how everything and the type of people in that focus, I think is just something to bring into your own entrepreneurial journey and start seeing where you can better tell a story to bring the right type of interactions that are going to bring you energy or just help you better focus on what’s important, not all the things we think we need to do. So everyone please, if you enjoyed the show, share it with someone you think is going to get a kick out of everything Justin was explaining today. And of course, tell them they need to subscribe on their podcast listening platform of choice. All right, have a great day and I’ll talk to you soon. Bye bye.