[00:01:23] A.J. Lawrence: I love it when I see success like this. This is so much fun. Today’s guest has built an amazing background in the legal. She’s been a law clerk, a lawyer, a professor, director of operations and chief legal officer. She’s running her own law firm. She speaks everywhere and she’s an advocate for lawyers’ rights in the law firm.
[00:01:46] I am so excited to have her on. Today, she’s the owner of Hashtag Legal and is gaining incredible acclaim for her legal support of digital businesses. Her Instagram alone for hashtag legal, will have everything in the notes, is just so much great information and so much fun and helpful to understand what you kind of need while you’re in business for the legal environment in your business. So enough of me blabbering. Let’s welcome Jamie Lieberman to the show.
[00:02:18] Hello Jamie, thank you so much for coming on the show. I am really excited as I was just telling the audience, because you have such this amazing background in the legal profession and in having businesses around the legal profession and then hashtag legal is really doing some really cool stuff. And I’m just excited to have you here. So thank you so much for coming on.
[00:02:39] Jamie Lieberman: Thanks for inviting me. I’m excited.
[00:02:41] A.J. Lawrence: Given that you really do have this amazing background, legal profession and different businesses and teaching and working for a judge and all this, now that you have Hashtag Legal, how do you see yourself as an entrepreneur?
[00:02:58] Jamie Lieberman: Gosh, I feel like that answer is ever changing. I feel like I’m the kind of person who is not really someone who sets big goals. I just sort of follow where things are taking me, which makes so many business coaches just cringe. I go where I feel like my career needs to go and that’s how every single step has taken. So I feel like I’m always changing as an entrepreneur.
[00:03:26] A couple years ago if you would’ve asked me that question, I would’ve said, oh, I’m building a law firm. Now, if you ask me that question, I would say, oh, I’m moving so much into strategy and working with clients that are just on such a much larger scale than when we first started out, that my role has changed so much.
[00:03:42] And I also have a thousand ideas that are like percolating in the back of my head as many entrepreneurs do. So every once in a while I think, oh, am I gonna start another business? Which I haven’t done yet. Not for a little while. So I feel like the answer to that is always evolving and changing.
[00:03:57] A.J. Lawrence: Very cool. I like that you say you’re getting stretched because when you do get into businesses, you do start seeing like, oh, I can see where this impacts other people, and your background as head of operations in a previous, you know, so it’s like, I could see where those things come to bear and that is really cool.
[00:04:16] Anyone who tells you there’s any one way of doing this is probably selling something. That’s the one thing I’ve noticed.
[00:04:23] Jamie Lieberman: Yeah.
[00:04:23] A.J. Lawrence: There is about being deliberate and focused, but the reality is we all create our own journeys and that’s what’s kind of very cool of how you’re doing this. You say you’re thinking about other businesses, but are you giving much thought of where you want to be as an entrepreneur down the road or are you just sort of chasing?
[00:04:41] Jamie Lieberman: Yeah. I think to myself that the reason I started my business and the whole goal behind it was for two reasons. And I feel like as long as I’m continuing along with that vision and those values, I feel good. And there are two reasons. One to create just a really comfortable and challenging and safe workspace for the people who work for me, because that was really something I felt was very much missing in all of my previous work experience prior to starting my own company, especially in the legal profession.
[00:05:11] And then the other piece of that is serving clients, which is something that I love doing and serving them in a way that makes them feel well-cared for, makes them feel as if they have a partner in their corner. And as long as I’m continuing to do that for clients. I think the way that we do that is always changing and I see how, when we started, it was one way of serving clients and then it continues to sort of innovate and change because I think there’s a lot of space for innovation in the legal world, because it’s just such a, I mean, I hate to say it like so many people are, these law firms are just so bulky and heavy and they’re just very set in their ways.
[00:05:50] And so I’m constantly looking for new ways that I can service or work with clients in a way that’s different or new. And so that’s really what gets me excited is finding a new way to connect with clients and finding a space where it feels innovative to them because my clients are innovators. So for me to not be that, we wouldn’t match.
[00:06:10] A.J. Lawrence: How are you kind of discovering these new ways? Is this by, you know, obviously talking with clients and stuff, but how is that happening for you?
[00:06:18] Jamie Lieberman: It’s really talking to clients. It’s having them come to me and start talking to me about what their issues are and me thinking, well, that’s really interesting because I’ve just heard that same issue from the last 15 people that I spoke with in the last couple weeks. There’s something here.
[00:06:31] I mean, that’s the cool thing about the work I do is I see trends in industries because clients come to me in two times: one, times of crisis or two, times of growth. That’s really when you’re gonna come talk to a lawyer. Not many people really sit down and say I’m super excited to build the legal foundation of my business.
[00:06:51] They’re usually focused on their brand, their marketing, like the sexier stuff. So when clients come to me, it’s usually because something is happening or shifting in their space. And so that enables me to say, oh, I see something’s going on here. Let me reach out to all my clients and say, Hey, I noticed this is what’s going on. Have you thought about X, Y, and Z, or even just providing some education around that area?
[00:07:13] A.J. Lawrence: No, I could so see that. I’m thinking of the three real cases. It was having someone steal my brand and pitch services, and have a domain with like the business plus like one extra word and say they were my agency and it was like, okay.
[00:07:32] And then the legal fun of that, I remember we won. But it cost me twice as much as I got, because I was like, maybe I shouldn’t have won. Yeah. And then growth, when we were looking to sell, it was all of a sudden, like, do we have all of our documents in order? So, yeah. It is that funny thing.
[00:07:52] As a business, you need to have good thing, but it’s not part of the very long, long, long list we all carry in our head and we say, we’re trying to keep a nice organized manner, but usually just sits there.
[00:08:05] Jamie Lieberman: Yeah. I think that’s actually how my law firm started – was education. And it’s something I continue to do. I appreciate your shout out to our Instagram. We just educate all the time. It’s why I speak. It’s why I go on podcast because even if someone hears me and doesn’t hire me, but goes and finds somebody else, that’s a win to me because I just feel like the legal profession in the entrepreneurial space is just its second class.
[00:08:31] It is not thought of unless you need us and then you need us, but really it is not on that list of like the first five people. I mean, people are hiring business coaches before they’re hiring lawyers and that just makes my head explode. I don’t understand it there’s space for everything, but if you don’t have your legal foundation set, it doesn’t matter how good your strategy is. I’ve seen companies eviscerated because of a mistake that was made. And I don’t wanna see that because it shouldn’t be that way.
[00:08:58] A.J. Lawrence: You seem more leaning towards the bootstrapped bang, the people who create their own what I call, their own realities, their own businesses. Because I always found it yes, as I got bigger, they were more than happy to be around in there. But it was like when you’re starting off, the startup lawyers are like the VC world. It’s all there that you don’t have that like, oh wait, I’m bootstrapping it. And yes, your last company with the downloadable forms, but it is that like, okay, there was some efforts, but now seeing firms like yours that work more hand in hand, that is an interest. And that’s, I think more of what we’re gonna see with the great resignation, you know, more of the need for that.
[00:10:20] So that’s another thing that I do see sometimes is being singularly focused on the funding, but yes, oftentimes particularly if you do bring in investment, your investors are gonna drive who you choose as legal. And so you just sort of know, and it’s all built in, but this is for the bootstrapped or the individuals who start and then rapidly scale and find themselves, like you said, at seven figures all of a sudden. And I have clients come to me, multiple seven figures, and they’ve never talked to a lawyer.
[00:10:48] A.J. Lawrence: The rise of content creators right now, it is beautiful, fascinating as a thing because of platform reach and all the other fun, fun, fun things. But you know, talking about you as an entrepreneur, what do you think has helped you the most sort of move forward as an entrepreneur?
[00:11:07] Jamie Lieberman: The people around me, no question. Hiring correctly and my peers. Finding a really great community, cuz being an entrepreneur is really lonely. If you don’t have a partner, if you’re just going at it alone, you’re a founder, whether you’re raising funds or you’re not whatever phase you’re in, you can sort of feel like you’re on an island.
[00:11:29] And so I have found the greatest resource has been my employees who are just, I mean, I talk to them all day, every day constantly, but I just had a call with my director of operations. And as we hung up, I said to her, I was like, I know I say this to you all the time, but I’m gonna keep saying this, I could not do this without you.
[00:11:47] She is the backbone of my company. And so for me, that’s been the only thing. It’s hiring right and also finding a really, I had a recent podcast guests come on my show and she called it a personal board of directors, which I thought was really cool. Finding a really cool, trusted, small group of individuals who you can call when you’re having those moments of fear, frustration, excitement, elation, something amazing happened.
[00:12:17] One of the members of my personal board of directors is she runs a product based business and she just got accepted to Target’s incubator program. Like how big and incredible is that? And we just couldn’t shout at high enough, like how amazing is that? So it’s all important, but that really has been, and that group can change.
[00:12:37] I outgroup people who at one time they were on that group and then it shifted and changed as the business grows and changes.
[00:12:45] A.J. Lawrence: That leads to probably a great question cause I know a lot of entrepreneurs have difficulty in that because they get so caught up in like mentor, advisor, this, yes, friends, you go drinks, you go see da, da, da, da. But how did you go about creating this personal board?
[00:13:02] Jamie Lieberman: I am really outgoing.
[00:13:06] A.J. Lawrence: I haven’t noticed that at all.
[00:13:08] Jamie Lieberman: I’m not an introverted entrepreneur. Honestly, I meet a lot of people all the time and every once in a while, there’s just a connection. There’s a click. And you have this moment where you kind of look at each other and you’re like, there’s something more here. We’re gonna get to know each other.
[00:13:23] It’s a slow thing. I think a lot of entrepreneurs want it to happen tomorrow. Everything has to happen tomorrow. We’re moving, moving, moving. This is a marathon. It’s not a sprint. And so as much as we all want that viral video or that huge million seven figure launch those things take time. It’s for sustainability. So cultivating relationships, no matter what your business is, whether it’s product or service based is everything. And so really spending the time to get to know people I met pre-pandemic. I traveled a lot. I spoke at a lot of events. I attended events and that for me was key to meeting people in all different areas.
[00:14:01] And often it was a similar, a speaker. Like if I was speaking at an event, maybe it was one of the other speakers. Maybe it’s a founder of a company I just found really interested and I wasn’t ever pitching business, but I thought I really love what you do and I just wanna kind of talk to you because I think I could learn from you those types of relationships. That’s really how, and it just takes a while and sort of then organically happens.
[00:14:22] I did join a local entrepreneur group where I met a number of really incredible, it was female entrepreneur group. We were all moms as well, which is another sort of great demographic for me to talk to cuz I do have two children. I met some amazing women there who were running businesses, who are moms so we had similarities in common. Even if our businesses, there was no other lawyers, it didn’t matter though, because we were all experiencing similar issues.
[00:14:48] A.J. Lawrence: Yes. I always find it funny where it was like pre-parenting. They always leave the party early, they do this, and then it’s sort of like, oh wait, you find other people are in that like, yet. It doesn’t matter how late I want to go out. I’m always up at 6:00 AM tomorrow. That’s they’re waking me up and it hurts.
[00:15:09] So yes, you learn that very quickly, the change and kind of adapt, but then also the world experience. That is very cool. Do you, this group of people, personal board, is this something you not work on, but like, do you have structure for it? Cause I’ve noticed before you’ve said, oh, I just do the things I feel like need to be done. Is this something you put structure to, so then you can kind of measure and grow or how does this work for you?
[00:15:36] Jamie Lieberman: I have put structure to it in the past. Right now, I don’t have any structure to it. It’s just sort of a group of women that we all sort of know that we go to each other. We may have a group text, or we usually have a quarterly sort of like accountability meeting. I am not an organizer of people or things, which goes with my personality of going with my gut.
[00:15:59] It happened that one of the members is a very good organizer so she handles making us sure that we all get together. I find I was doing one that was, we were meeting like every two weeks and that came because of the pandemic. And I think a lot of us felt really petrified in the beginning of the pandemic that were entrepreneurs not knowing what was going to happen. And that kind of ran its course, just because things settled out and we figured, and we did it for about a year and it was wonderful. But we all sort of knew at the same time we’re like, I don’t think we need to meet every two weeks anymore. And then we shifted things a bit. So it really ebbs and flows depending on sort of what’s going on in the business. But right now we try to meet quarterly and then we just stay connected via either text or email, or whatever’s easier for everybody to do it that way.
[00:16:45] And it’s not always a group. So sometimes I have, like, I do have a group, but then I have one or two other people outside that are just separate, that are completely different that I may talk to about other issues. So I think I sort of mentally organize it, but nothing so regimented.
[00:17:03] A.J. Lawrence: Yeah. Keeping that balance almost like you have a talent map in your head or a support map.
[00:17:08] Jamie Lieberman: Yeah. Like I have specific people that I really rely on or count on if a specific issue comes up.
[00:17:14] A.J. Lawrence: One of the things I find, especially with how you’re presenting of information, education in the legal space for entrepreneurs, content creators, businesses, et cetera, because we’re getting to be such a weird. We’re all kind of the same and we’re all very different, which is fun. One of the things I found so interesting was just your willingness to kind of provide content and sort of how the content was relevant versus what I always fight on because it’s so easy to fall into is content for content’s sake.
[00:17:43] What advice would you say for an entrepreneur person creating a business or doing something that all of a sudden they’ve passed that idea of like, "oh, is this going to work?" to they have a half a million to a million, maybe low seven figures where all of sudden it’s like, okay, this is something, but what’s gonna be when it grows up and how am I gonna keep it going?
[00:18:07] What advice do you give to people in that space?
[00:18:10] Jamie Lieberman: You have to know your basics and you have to build your foundations. You have to know the data in your business. You have to know your analytics. You have to have all your foundations built. I don’t just mean legal. You have to have your core employees. I don’t know many people who make it to seven figures without at least doing some hiring.
[00:18:29] And you have to make sure you know who you need to help you continue to scale, cuz your team is going to be really so important. You also have to make a pact with yourself that you will delegate cuz you can’t do it all and know where to let go. So you need to reassess your role as founder and stop thinking of yourself as someone who has just created something that is happily moving along to reframing your brand as CEO, it’s a very different role.
[00:19:02] A.J. Lawrence: Reframing your brand as CEO. That’s a cool concept.
[00:19:05] Jamie Lieberman: I just spill these things out.
[00:19:09] A.J. Lawrence: Yes, cause I’ve had other entrepreneurs talk about lean into the concept of what your mission is. This idea of like when you’re in that transition, getting people to kind of come into, not just your employees, not just your customers, but like creating that whole environment around it.
[00:19:28] Cuz I like that because you go from being wandering the desert, shouting to the things you find that one strange person who will dance, you ever see that video, the YouTube video of like, how do you get a crowd dancing? And it’s not the one fool, which I always feel like I am, dancing by themselves in the corner or in the middle. It’s like the second person. It’s when the second person starts dancing and then you have to rebrand yourself. How are you looking at rebranding yourself as CEO now?
[00:19:59] Jamie Lieberman: For me, it was the type of work that I now do. It is the delegation. It is knowing when a staff attorney on my staff can do the work that I’m currently doing or knowing when I need to let my director of operations just take over.
[00:20:19] I’ll give you an example. We are highly automated and my processes are everything in our legal practice. My ops director recently came to me and said I think I wanna change platforms. And I was like, I have to learn a new platform. I was like, what? And I just looked at her and I said, that’s yours.
[00:20:36] You decide, you pick it. If you like it, I trust you and go for it. Obviously, I make sure that we have security and it’s a fit and all those things, but she did the research. She did every single one of the free trials. She spent a few months looking into it. I blessed it. And she came back and she very clearly convinced me. And she said, okay, this is where I think we should go. This is what I’ve done. This is the pricing. This is what it can do. All these things. And for me, that was 30 minutes of my time. And I was able to say done, let’s do it, go. And she felt really empowered because she owns it. It’s hers. She’s gonna create it. She’s gonna make those workflows, those processes. And then she’s gonna teach all of us so we all know.
[00:21:17] Also making sure that not only one person knows how to do things in your business, will just make that a side note. But it really was in the past. I would’ve been like wanting to know, well, what is it, what does it do? How much does it, all these things. And I would’ve been asking over and over again. That’s not a good use of my time. So knowing where I am best served in the business, which includes a lot of things like what speaking engagements am I going to take now? Where am I gonna put my time? Cuz time is really, really limited. And it also is served by what clients are we going to allow into the practice?
[00:21:54] It’s not just bring us all the clients. It’s are you a fit for our practice? And do we have space for it? Because we’re busy, which is wonderful and I’m grateful for it, but it’s also knowing when it’s gonna be a good fit. So that’s where I’m best served as CEO as guiding all of that versus scheduling somebody to have a phone call with me or figuring out what software we’re gonna use and all those tasks that are incredibly important, but not important for me to do.
[00:22:21] A.J. Lawrence: Now that you’re not focusing on working in and you’re starting to work more on hashtag legal. Where do you wanna take it?
[00:22:30] Jamie Lieberman: I wanna take it to a place where we are, and we are in this transition now, which is really, really cool because many of our clients that we started with five or six years ago have grown really, really big businesses. And so I am far more focused on some of those larger businesses.
[00:22:46] The businesses that need what I’ll call outside general counsel versus the one off projects where someone, and I’m excited to work with those people, but someone saved a really long time to file a trademark application. They’re lovely clients, and I love working with those clients, but my time is more focused on working with those larger clients on strategy, cuz that’s just what gets me super excited.
[00:23:09] So shifting to almost all of my work and I have staff attorneys that can do those trademarks for those people who are coming in and who are just starting out. But my goal in focus is really having an impact on organizations by taking 16 years of legal practice and all the business experience and all, like I said, I hear all the problems. I know the stuff that’s coming up in specific industries so that I can really be an effective partner. That’s really the goal and where I’m taking the business.
[00:23:41] A.J. Lawrence: Given that you’ve been looking at rebranding yourself as CEO, and you’re looking at taking the firm to sort of match the growth of your clients here. First, do you go out of your way to celebrate your own successes? And then two, how do you go about defining those successes?
[00:23:58] Jamie Lieberman: I am horrible at celebrating my own successes. I’ll lay it out there. I am so bad. I don’t even think about it, I’ll be honest. Something pops up and I’m like, that’s cool. And then it’s then onto the next thing, which is terrible. It’s not good.
[00:24:12] I think the way that I’ve always defined success is feeling proud of the work that I do. So when I can leave a day or an interaction and be like, yeah, I feel good about how I handled that. That to me is success. It’s never been monetary for me.
[00:24:29] It’s never been, I have to have X number of clients. It hasn’t been, you know, when we hit our thousandth matter. It wasn’t that. For me, success is always knowing that making things a little bit better or easier for someone, not just my clients, but also my employees. That’s really key to me and creating a working environment that feels safe and that’s not toxic that doesn’t deal with a lot of the challenges that many young attorneys, particularly female attorneys often face. That’s a success to me.
[00:25:02] It’s knowing that my employee can come to me and say, Hey, I’m really stuck on this and I’m confused. And she felt safe enough to talk it out with me without fear that I’d scream at her, fire her because she professed to say she didn’t know something. That’s success. So I feel really proud of that. And when I can walk away feeling just good about it. Like I’m leaving things a little bit better than I found them.
[00:25:24] I feel like the money comes when you live by those values. When you have a good product or you have a good service and you continue to, it follows. So if you feel good about the work that you’re doing and you’re providing a service that’s needed, obviously in the market, the rest of those metrics that people typically utilized to define success will follow.
[00:25:47] A.J. Lawrence: And I think your experiences and background also kind of add up to the idea that consistently creates value. You’ve been one step to the other, to the other, and yes, maybe different things, maybe environments that haven’t been as great, but definitely this concept of like, okay, how can I bring value to this and that consistent effort over a long period of time.
[00:26:11] I always like to say it’s that concept of overnight success, 20 years in the making.
[00:26:16] Jamie Lieberman: Yep.
[00:26:16] A.J. Lawrence: Maybe much less for you.
[00:26:18] Jamie Lieberman: No, not much less, actually but thank you.
[00:26:23] A.J. Lawrence: Besides going to Hashtag Legal and then checking out your Instagram, like we’ll have everything in the show notes folks. How else can people engage with you?
[00:26:31] Jamie Lieberman: Yeah, I mean the best place to find out more about us is definitely on our website and that is hashtag-legal.com. Instagram is a really good place. And certainly if you wanna email us, you can find us at email@example.com. It’s all spelled out and we will get back to you, but you can find out our Instagram is definitely the best place to check out and see what it is that we do.
[00:26:52] The handle is hashtag_legal and we post, like, I mean, we do not take ourselves seriously at all. You could probably figure that out by it’s very sort of relaxed and towards education and we have a lot of fun with it, but we do post a lot of videos and infographics and just like, you know, information that anybody who is starting a business may need is what our goal is.
[00:27:14] A.J. Lawrence: Thank you so much for coming on today, Jamie. I really appreciate it.
[00:27:18] Jamie Lieberman: Thanks for having me.
[00:27:19] A.J. Lawrence: Thank you for listening to that conversation I just had with Jamie. I really, really like a lot of how she’s approaching the legal field. And I know there is an argument to be made from law firms being entrepreneurial or not.
[00:27:34] What she is doing really is the definition of entrepreneurial activity. They’re adapting and changing and finding ways to create more value for their clients, like an agency does and et cetera. So look, really a lot of fun to kind of dive into it. I like how she’s talks about always changing where the opportunity is now.
[00:27:57] She kind of said it throw away, but when she went and explained it, I know there are many entrepreneurs, myself included who have bright, shiny object syndrome, something cool. Oh, I gotta do this. Oh, we need to do this. Oh, let’s NFT. What, what, what can we do?
[00:28:12] When you listen to her explanation. She definitely isn’t chasing, she’s moving from one piece to the other from moving in a very strategic pattern to go and create higher value for her clients.
[00:28:26] She talks about her clients having a growing and a changing needs. So the way she’s creating her law firm is changing and adapting. So she can not only provide the services. They. But also be there to better provide strategic. And it’s not just her, but her whole organization. And that’s kind of where I think some of the magic is.
[00:28:49] And then as we are looking, if you have a client base that changes and adapts and just the overall space, how does that happen? And how do you go and kind of go. I know in my past efforts running agencies, I’ve always looked at what would it take for us to provide strategic advice or value for our clients? And being able to kind of look at that is one way to consistently drive your growth and your focus of what you need to grow. I like then also how she talks about working to create the environment, to have the team, her law firm, the people working for her, to be able to create this.
[00:29:28] She realized that the legal profession that she experienced working for other, in other firms, wasn’t very supportive. Wasn’t a type of environment she was very happy being in. So by working to kind of create something that’s inclusive and is where she would want to, she can find people who also want to have that environment, which probably leads to being more flexible in how to deliver legal services to clients that are adapting.
[00:29:59] I know I was raised by a lawyer and I know lots of lawyers who are very good people, but sometimes they get very, very stuck in how things are done. Looking at something like this and how she’s trying to create that space and having her team be the type of people who are open to change, I think is going to allow them to be more adaptable.
[00:30:20] So she’s creating that environment when you’re looking at types of work, type of clients, thinking of who are the people you need on your team and what type of environment that they would like so they would be interested in then joining you and joining you on this effort to provide these services or provide value for your clients. I think is an interesting thought process. And I like how she’s gone about it, talks about it.
[00:30:47] And then lastly, a little bit of a throwaway line something to think about because of where it came from. As she’s been growing and transitioning into a larger business, she realize she needs to push responsibility deeper and throughout her organization. But with the definite caveat to make sure that there’s not only one person in the organization who knows how to do something.
[00:31:10] And I know that is really important. Having kind of created that situation in the past in some, my efforts, it’s like one day you’re doing it then you try and move it into the company. And you’re like, oh great. It’s being done. And then you completely forget how to do it. Three years later, you’re like, wait, how do we? They just moved across the country to a new? So long story short.
[00:31:32] Ii’s a throwaway. It’s a little bit of a haha. But the impact of moving from "I’m going to do it to my organization", to "this person in my organization’s going to do it", to "the organization has the understanding of how to get it done". Whether it be just one person with processes in place so another person or multiple people. That is that kind of growth process that companies go through in order just to grow, to get to that next level.
[00:32:02] So it was really interesting the way she kind of just tossed it out there. I love what they’re doing. And I think looking at their services in the way they’re doing, there’s a lot of value.
[00:32:11] If you are in this space and you are looking for legal services, you won’t go wrong with at least having a conversation with them, hashtag-legal.com. We’ll make sure we have the URLs and everything. Hashtag legal on Instagram is a little bit faster and easier. Go check ’em out. Great content and some great stuff to think about around your legal situations, you know, that you may have and starting, growing and running a company, there’s lots of fun stuff.
[00:32:38] So it’s kind of interesting what they’re doing and as always, thank you so much for listening to today’s episode. If you enjoyed this episode, please go leave us a review on iTunes, or if you didn’t leave us a review and tell us what you would like us to work on. Go check out the website beyond8figures.com and sign up for our newsletter so we can send you updates of when we have other cool guests. And when we have people talking about things that will really help you in your own entrepreneurial journey. Thank you so much for listening to today’s episode. Can’t wait to talk to you again. Bye bye.
[00:33:14] This episode of Beyond 8 Figures is over, but your journey as an entrepreneur continues. So if we can help you with anything, please just let us know. And if you liked this episode, please share it with someone who might learn from it. Until next time, keep growing and find the joy in your journey. This is A.J., and I’ll be talking to you soon. Bye bye.